Comments for Center for Christian Business Ethics http://www.cfcbe.com Just another WordPress weblog Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:44:20 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 Comment on Part 2- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by Don McLaurin http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/23/part-2-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5367 Don McLaurin Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:44:20 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2512#comment-5367 Re Kevin's remarks. While the producer absolutely should make his profit, so should the trading company - it is not an either or proposition. Distribution channels are just critical to the producer in order to get products to the market. After the fall of the Soviet Union there were almost no distribution facilities in Eastern Europe and crops rotted in the fields to the detriment of both producers and people needing food. The few people with trucks made a killing and rightfully so. Without them, the farmer went broke and the people went hungry. Re Kevin’s remarks. While the producer absolutely should make his profit, so should the trading company – it is not an either or proposition. Distribution channels are just critical to the producer in order to get products to the market. After the fall of the Soviet Union there were almost no distribution facilities in Eastern Europe and crops rotted in the fields to the detriment of both producers and people needing food. The few people with trucks made a killing and rightfully so. Without them, the farmer went broke and the people went hungry.

]]> Comment on Part 3- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by David Cowan http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/30/part-3-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5334 David Cowan Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:09:07 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2539#comment-5334 George, the one I use is Kiva, found at www.kiva.org You can be a co-investor or single investor, choose your investment by browsing through the various requests. There are other microlending schemes and websites, but this is the only one I have used and it has been very straightforward. Let us know how you get on! George, the one I use is Kiva, found at http://www.kiva.org You can be a co-investor or single investor, choose your investment by browsing through the various requests. There are other microlending schemes and websites, but this is the only one I have used and it has been very straightforward. Let us know how you get on!

]]> Comment on Part 2- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by David Cowan http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/23/part-2-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5333 David Cowan Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:06:14 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2512#comment-5333 Kevin, I think you miss the point. "Fair trade" leads to dependency and false market conditions, and so in the long-term is not about profit but subsidy, and the subsidy leads to development of products set by "free trade" cartel rather than market demand; hence coffee growers expand producing more coffee than people need and so other areas of investment suffer. The big corporations still get their money by branding this so-called care and selling it at a mark-up. A lose-lose situation. Kevin, I think you miss the point. “Fair trade” leads to dependency and false market conditions, and so in the long-term is not about profit but subsidy, and the subsidy leads to development of products set by “free trade” cartel rather than market demand; hence coffee growers expand producing more coffee than people need and so other areas of investment suffer. The big corporations still get their money by branding this so-called care and selling it at a mark-up. A lose-lose situation.

]]> Comment on Part 2- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by David Cowan http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/23/part-2-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5332 David Cowan Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:00:37 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2512#comment-5332 Daniel, the interesting thing about the Good Samaritan is that Jesus does not tell of giving the man the money directly but to the innkeeper, and of course he does not get into trouble in the first place because of his own foolishness but because he is attacked by robbers. You are right though, there are times when we can act compassionately, but since we are not Jesus we rarely act without self-interest in some shape or form - even if that self-interest is our salvation. I do allow room for charity by individuals, but am suspicious of government aid programs, handouts, dependency and entitlements. Daniel, the interesting thing about the Good Samaritan is that Jesus does not tell of giving the man the money directly but to the innkeeper, and of course he does not get into trouble in the first place because of his own foolishness but because he is attacked by robbers. You are right though, there are times when we can act compassionately, but since we are not Jesus we rarely act without self-interest in some shape or form – even if that self-interest is our salvation. I do allow room for charity by individuals, but am suspicious of government aid programs, handouts, dependency and entitlements.

]]> Comment on Part 3- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by George Sullivan http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/30/part-3-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5321 George Sullivan Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:36:00 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2539#comment-5321 I agree with your suggestion to invest money in developing countries. How do I go about this? Is there a trusted organization you know of that I could invest with? I agree with your suggestion to invest money in developing countries. How do I go about this? Is there a trusted organization you know of that I could invest with?

]]> Comment on Part 2- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by Daniel http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/23/part-2-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5252 Daniel Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:31:40 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2512#comment-5252 Was the Good Samaritan being a socialist for helping the man on the road? Perhaps instead of giving the innkeeper two Denarii to care for him, he should have billed the traveller for the inn and his own services. There's nothing wrong with emergency services personnel being paid for their work, but Jesus seems to be saying that there are also times when self-interest should yield to other values. A fair trade purchase will not solve global poverty any more than the Samaritan solved injury, but sometimes compassion without expectation of return is the correct action. Was the Good Samaritan being a socialist for helping the man on the road? Perhaps instead of giving the innkeeper two Denarii to care for him, he should have billed the traveller for the inn and his own services. There’s nothing wrong with emergency services personnel being paid for their work, but Jesus seems to be saying that there are also times when self-interest should yield to other values. A fair trade purchase will not solve global poverty any more than the Samaritan solved injury, but sometimes compassion without expectation of return is the correct action.

]]> Comment on Part 2- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by Kevin N. Weaver http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/23/part-2-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5249 Kevin N. Weaver Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:38:56 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2512#comment-5249 What distortion is this? I Quote "Fair trade is the economic equivalent of throwing a few cents to a beggar on the street, rather than finding a way to get the beggar back ... into society." Actually Fair trade means that the person already working gets the profit instead of the corporation doing the "free" trading. What distortion is this? I Quote “Fair trade is the economic equivalent of throwing a few cents to a beggar on the street, rather than finding a way to get the beggar back … into society.” Actually Fair trade means that the person already working gets the profit instead of the corporation doing the “free” trading.

]]> Comment on Part 2- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by Don McLaurin http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/23/part-2-fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5247 Don McLaurin Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:25:23 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2512#comment-5247 I'm not so certain that free trade does not have at least a theological component. Trade at a profit is mentioned several times in the Bible in a positive light. Psalm 31 gives the picture of a noble wife, much of which is about her ability to trade and make a profit. We know that Calvin was instrumental in setting up the banking system in Geneva. It seems to me that realizing we live in a fallen world, the free market, uses our propensity to follow our self interest to create good whether we mean to or not. In order to thrive, I have to supply my fellow man with what he wants - this was what Adam Smith famously observed.. Each time I travel I am struck by the fact that total strangers routinely take me to the airport, feed me breakfast, take me to a hotel where other strangers happily provide a room for me. Maybe they are virtuous people, maybe not, but it is in their self interest to provide these wonderful services to me either way. All other systems of commerce try to coerce people into being virtuous. Free trade works, because it recognizes the fallen nature of man and the world. Any system that assumes any other view of man is doomed to failure. I think that is why fair trade will never become a dominant economic model for pulling masses out of poverty. I’m not so certain that free trade does not have at least a theological component. Trade at a profit is mentioned several times in the Bible in a positive light. Psalm 31 gives the picture of a noble wife, much of which is about her ability to trade and make a profit.

We know that Calvin was instrumental in setting up the banking system in Geneva. It seems to me that realizing we live in a fallen world, the free market, uses our propensity to follow our self interest to create good whether we mean to or not. In order to thrive, I have to supply my fellow man with what he wants – this was what Adam Smith famously observed..

Each time I travel I am struck by the fact that total strangers routinely take me to the airport, feed me breakfast, take me to a hotel where other strangers happily provide a room for me. Maybe they are virtuous people, maybe not, but it is in their self interest to provide these wonderful services to me either way.

All other systems of commerce try to coerce people into being virtuous. Free trade works, because it recognizes the fallen nature of man and the world. Any system that assumes any other view of man is doomed to failure. I think that is why fair trade will never become a dominant economic model for pulling masses out of poverty.

]]> Comment on Part 1- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by David Vanderveen http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/17/fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5188 David Vanderveen Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:46:04 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2477#comment-5188 Good commentary on Fair Trade's failures (and unfortunate implosion recently). Fair Trade did a great job of alerting the world to impoverished farmers who are kept in grinding poverty because of a lack of information. Free trade is the solution for sustainable development work. I'd recommend this recent article in Stanford's Social Innovation Magazine as a shining example: http://www.ssireview.org/blog/entry/is_fair_good_enough Good commentary on Fair Trade’s failures (and unfortunate implosion recently). Fair Trade did a great job of alerting the world to impoverished farmers who are kept in grinding poverty because of a lack of information. Free trade is the solution for sustainable development work. I’d recommend this recent article in Stanford’s Social Innovation Magazine as a shining example: http://www.ssireview.org/blog/entry/is_fair_good_enough

]]> Comment on Part 1- Fair Trade vs. Free Trade: A Christian Choice? by David Cowan http://www.cfcbe.com/2012/01/17/fair-trade-vs-free-trade-a-christian-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-5102 David Cowan Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:55:59 +0000 http://www.cfcbe.com/?p=2477#comment-5102 @Don, this is a 3 part article, and the issue you rightly raise is dealt with, so watch this space. @Charles, delighted you're enjoying the read! @Don, this is a 3 part article, and the issue you rightly raise is dealt with, so watch this space.

@Charles, delighted you’re enjoying the read!

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